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2月27日

Syriana

Based on a book from a retired CIA agent. 
 
I watched this movie and it is great, but I had no idea it was based on a book written by a retired CIA agent.  I researched it a little further and I found two interesting articles. 
 
One is an interview with Retired CIA Agent Robert Baer, whose book,  See No Evil: The True Story of a Ground Soldier in the CIA's War Against Terrorism, was the inspiration for the movie Syriana. 
 
The second is an article in the Christian Science Monitor that discusses a new trend of CIA agents speaking out against the administration.  This article looks at two retired CIA agents, Robert Baer and "Mike Scheuer, a 22-year veteran who works in the CIA's Counterterrorist Center and is a former head of its Osama bin Laden unit" who has written in his book, Imperial Hubris:
 
[The Iraq War was] ""an avaricious, premeditated, unprovoked war against a foe who posed no immediate threat but whose defeat did offer economic advantages."
 
In the CSmonitor article there was this statement:
 
""Some people will say he is crazy to publicly say these things," says Charles Battaglia, former staff director for the Senate Intelligence Committee. "But others will say he's acting on the courage of his convictions.""
 
I agree with the second statement.  I think it takes courage to stand up to a corrupt administration.  These guys have done and seen things that could have them "disappeared", but they are putting themselves on the line to try to get the truth out to the average American who is paying attention.  I wish more people had the courage to do this. 
 
A quote from the Robert Baer interview:
 
"The people of America's fault. The irony is, we're dumping billions and billions of dollars every time we go to the gas pump into a jihad against us in Iraq that's killing American soldiers. I've read, "One kid is dying in Iraq so the father of the kid next door can drive his Hummer." And what's more, the money's coming from Japan and China, and in a certain sense from the Middle East, and then it's filtering back. Blackwater, SAIC, Custer Battle—all these companies just basically got the 20 billion dollars that was supposed to go into construction. Construction was never going to happen."
 
Discuss...
(and watch Syriana)
 
On another note, here is how our government treats dissenters:

Civil War?

I haven't spoken about Iraq in a while.  It is too depressing, but now that civil war seems to be in full swing, I figured I would discuss it.  One, it has been coming for quite some time.  I have been saying this for a while.  But, what has escalated it?  Well, if you have been following it like me, there are several things over the past month that should stand out. 
 
First, for a year or so now, Sunnis have been found with gunshot wounds to the back of their heads.  Many witnesses have been saying that most of these people had been picked up by the Shia miitary or police forces right beofre they disappeared. 
 
Second, a few months ago we found out about Shia Ministry of Defense run torture rooms that were full of Sunnis. 
 
Third, about a month ago the Shia government leader told Bush that he should leave them alone and stay out of Iraq's business (which, normally I would be fine with), but they said this in response to our country asking them to bridge the sectarian gap.  The Shia government made it very clear that they have no plans of working with the other groups in Iraq. 
 
Fourth, and probably the final straw, are the Mosque bombings.  Well, we all heard about the Shia Golden Mosque being blown up recently.  Oh, the outcry we heard over that one.  One thing that was not highlighted was the 60 Sunni Mosques that had been destroyed over the last few months.  But, what stands out more to me is the overlooked details.  The first story I read on this incident described a person in a unifrom going into the mosque just minutes before it blew up.  Well, I hate to tell ya, but there aren't too many, if any Sunnis in the Iraqi military or police force.  Plus this gem that I found that has been recently "scrubbed" from the Washington Post:
 
"In Samarra, witnesses said that Interior Ministry commandos and Iraqi police were cordoning the shrine before the explosions took place. (WaPo, February 23, 2006)"
 
So, could the Shia be trying to incite a civil war?  Of course.  Just look back at their attitude about bridging the sectarian gap.  I guess you have all forgotten about the "protests" by the Sunnis, some secular Shiites, and some Kurds right after the elections in December.  They were together chanting, "Iraq Unite".  So, it would actually be in the interest for the Shia to incite a civil war and blame it on the Sunni population.  They want to rid the country of the Sunni population and they needed a reason to do it.  Meanwhile, our troops are nowhere to be found.
 
Which now brings us to the million dollar question.  What should we do?  Or.  Should we stay or should we go?  Well, thanks to our Dear Leaders horrible bungling of this entire war, there is no good answer.  We can stay and get caught up in the civil war and risk another Vietnam-type slaughter of our troops.  Or, we can leave and have to sit back and watch the Shiites slaughter countless Sunni civilians.  That is the dilemma we have found ourselves in.  I don't think there is anything that we can do that is going to stop this from happening.  Of course, many people already believe it has begun (I tend to agree).  This is what happens when you go around preemptively attacking countries  with no plan or more importantly with no fucking common sense. 
 
Do you think the civil war will stave off "democracy" in Iraq?  I do.  Of course, they never really had a real democracy anyway.  They had/have a Shia theocracy.  But, one option for the US, is to do what the US is best at, and that is to control the region by installing a Sunni dictator, and around and around we go.  For those of you who do not follow history, this is how Saddam got in power in the first place.  The US put helped him get in power.  The US wanted to have the religious Shia sect controlled just as much as Saddam.  Do I agree?  No.  I would love to see something good happen for a change.  Do I think anything good will come out of this situation?  No. 
 
If you want the history of how well the US is at nation building, listen to this:
 
What are your thoughts?
2月26日

From the frontlines of the culture war

I usually try to avoid this kind of stuff because I see no reason to argue about morality and religious indoctrination here.  If you want to believe something spiritual, fine.  Just don't expect me to give a damn.  And don't expect me to live by your religious moral code if I'm not party to your religion.  I've got my own that does just fine for me, but I know that you might not appreciate its simplicity and beauty.  However, I came across this and realized that, for once, someone actually said something new (to me anyway).  Here's an excerpt from mahablog with an interesting take on the "When does life begin?" question and why that question doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the abortion debate:

The argument made by many opponents to legal abortion is that the product of pregnancy is human life, and human life is sacred; therefore, it must be protected. There’s no question that a living human embryo is both alive and human, but when you call it “sacred” you’re throwing a religious concept into the mix. And the great religions of the world do not at all agree on the question of when (or even whether) “human life” becomes “sacred.” Some say at conception, some say at “quickening,” some say at viability, some say at birth. And some will tell you that everything and nothing are equally sacred, so stop asking stupid questions...

Our notions of where a fetus fits on the morality scale depend very much on the angle from which we view the question. A fetus is human. But humans are sentient, and a fetus is (so science tells us) insentient. A fetus is like a parasite, or a lower life form. A fetus is God. A fetus is a baby. A fetus is not a baby. A fetus is a potential baby. A fetus is sacred. Nothing is sacred. Everything is sacred.

How about, All of the above?

...I’ve come to see that morality depends on the state of mind in which one acts as much as the act itself. People do “good” things for selfish reasons, and “bad” things for altruistic reasons. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

[This article in its entirety can be found here.]


 The rest of it can be found here.  It's even got a diagram to help along those who have trouble with so many words all in a row.  Those of you who take the time to read the article, what are your thoughts on the argument?  I don't want anyone's thoughts on when life begins.  I could probably guess the view of everyone that has commented on here in the past.  I just want to discuss the idea that when life begins doesn't make any difference to the legality question of abortion.

2月24日

WTF

Bush:
"This wouldn't be going forward if we weren't certain that our ports would be secure. The more people learn about the transaction that has been scrutinized and approved by my government, the more they'll be comforted that our ports will be secure."
 
Since when is it HIS government?  I was almost sure we have a government of, by, and for the people.  I was almost sure that it is OUR government.
 
Rove:
"What is important is that members of Congress have the time to get fully briefed on this."
 
It's not important that we get their opinion, or if they agree or not.  It's just important that they know.  Kind of like what we did with the NSA thing.  Just so long as they know, everything's fine.
 
 
The Constitution, Article I, Section 8:
"The Congress shall have Power To....regulate Commerce with foreign Nations."
 
I think this line speaks for itself.  Rove, go fuck yourself.  You don't get to decide what the Congress can or cannot do.  That has been decided already. 

30 Pieces of Silver

I hope Woodward is enjoying his blood money.  He was apparently given unfettered access to mountains of classified documents in writing his book Bush at War.  Some CIA agents protested, but DCI Goss insisted that this was what the president wanted.  Goss said that it would be a good PR move.  I wonder if part of the funding for the book came from the billions the Pentagon has spent on foreign and domestic propaganda?  Or maybe from the tens of millions other Departments have spent to have government propaganda forced on us as "news".  In some countries, that's called state-run media.  Americans generally are taught to frown on this practice.  But when it's Woodward's book, and it might make the President look nice, it's all ok.
 
 
Here's Sen. Rockafeller's letter to Negroponte about this subject and the blazing hypocrisy coming from the White House over classified leaks.
 
Excerpt from Rockafeller:
"In his 2002 book Bush at War, Bob Woodward described almost unfettered access to classified material of the most sensitive nature. According to his account, he was provided information related to sources and methods, extremely sensitive covert actions, and foreign intelligence liaison relationships. If it no wonder, as Director Goss wrote, “because of the number of recent news reports discussing our relationships with other intelligence services, some of these partners have even informed the C.I.A. that they are reconsidering their participation of some of our most important antiterrorism ventures.”

I wrote both former Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) George Tenet and Acting DCI John McLaughlin seeking to determine what steps were being taken to address the appalling disclosures contained in Bush at War. The only response I received was to indicate that the leaks had been authorized by the Administration. The CIA has still not responded to a follow-up letter I sent a year and half ago on September 1, 2004, trying to pin down which officials were authorized to meet with Mr. Woodward and by whom, and what intelligence information was conveyed during these authorized exchanges."
2月23日

When will people begin to see through the bull

Ok, I think it is finally time for the country to wake up.  I still cannot understand why so many people support this hack in office.  Ever since he got in office, he says one thing and does another.  If you still think that this guy gives a damn about our security, then you are delusional.  One thing and one thing alone matters to our CIC and that is corporate welfare and profit.  Oh yeah, and cronyism. 
 
If you disagree, then you might want to check out this transcript from Lou Dobbs that connects all the dots in the Dubai port scheme: 
Transcript can be found at C&L here:
 
Also, there is a video.  I will be putting it up on my media player, but if it is taking too long, you can go to the above C&L link and watch it there.

So, I am waiting for the apologists to start defending this one.  Actually, maybe people will learn from this debacle and take another look at why we got into Iraq.  There are a lot of the same business ties there too. 


In other news, Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas is obviously an asshole.  He seems to hate the poor in this country.  In addition to voting against Katrina aid, he is now opening an investigation into Citgo oil company because Venezuela had the gall to help out our poorest residents during a winter in which the sky rocketing heating oil costs are leaving a lot of families in the cold. 

"Venezuela's Citgo Petroleum Corp. is offering heating oil at a 40 percent discount to low-income families throughout the American Northeast."

So, out of all the corruption that's going on, and the sale of our ports to the UAE, and the War, and torture allegations, and wiretapping, this A-hole decides that giving help to the poor in need so they don't freeze to death during the frigid Northern winter is what needs to be investigated?

"Here are some of the words Rep. Barton has used to describe this assistance: "unfriendly," "belligerent," "hostile." Barton is chair of the House Energy Committee, whose spokesperson, Lisa Miller, also chimed in on the fuel assistance for poor families, calling it "obnoxious." Barton and Rep. Ed Whitfield, R-Ky., have launched a congressional investigation of Citgo."

This is what it boils down to?  Helping the impovershed is a criminal act?  What next?  Can we finally have our country back? 

Read more here.

My Wall

 
Yes, this is my livingroom and yes that is a big sheet of plastic.  That is my "wall" for the time being.  It has been like that since Tuesday.  If you want some background on this, you can go here:
 

Update on the "But we're winning" front

Found this on the BBC website.  I thought it was pretty interesting.  Of course, you would never see a table like this in America.  Nothing to put a dent in the propaganda.
 
 
2004
Total attacks: 26,496
Improvised bombs: 5,607
Car bombings: 420
Suicide car bombings: 133
Suicide bombers wearing explosive vests: 7
 
2005
Total attacks: 34,131
Improvised bombs: 10,593
Car bombings: 873
Suicide car bombings: 411
Suicide bombers wearing explosive vests: 67
 
 
Smells like imminent victory to me.  The DoD sure is putting the billions of propaganda dollars to good use.  Winning the hearts and minds, to be sure.  Speaking of that, Vic had this to say at Inkwell Insurgency:
 
"Rumsfeld told reporters he was mistaken in the earlier assertion.

“I don’t have knowledge as to whether it’s been stopped. I do have knowledge it was put under review. I was correctly informed. And I just misstated the facts,” "
 
In my book, when you have the correct information and misstate the facts (expecially in an effort to divert attention from the truth)  that is called telling a lie.  If he had said he was misinformed and apologized for propagating that misinformation on the press, that would be something altogether different.  But to admit to having the right information while he was giving us the wrong information speaks to the deliberate nature of his remarks.  That is a lie.  There is no other way to say it.
 
 
Juan Cole, one of the foremost experts on Iraqi hearts and minds, says his piece here on the bombing of the Golden Dome in Samarra, and its larger implications for the country and for us.

Round and round we go

Well, I suppose it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.  Now that they have Roberts and Alito, they feel invincible.  This will be perhaps the truest test of where our society will go under these clowns, and apparently how fast we will get there.
 
 
South Dakota moved closer to imposing some of the strictest limits on abortion in the nation as the state Senate approved legislation that would ban the procedure except when the woman's life is in danger.

The bill [is] designed to spark a courtroom showdown over the legality of abortion.

Doctors in South Dakota would face up to five years in prison for performing an abortion.

"South Dakota's ban is the most sweeping abortion ban passed by any state in more than a decade," Planned Parenthood Federation of America lawyer Eve Gartner said in a written statement. She said the organization would do everything it could to ensure that women and their doctors, not politicians, made their health care decisions.

Supporters say an anonymous donor has pledged to provide South Dakota with $1 million to help defend the law in court.

[Wonder who that might be.]

The recent appointment of Justices John Roberts and Samuel Alito make the U.S. Supreme Court more likely to consider overturning Roe v. Wade now, Bartling and other supporters said.

Some senators, including Republicans, were concerned that the legislation did not include exceptions for abortions in cases of rape or incest.

Republican Sen. Stan Adelstein said it would be "a continued savagery unworthy of South Dakota" to make a woman bear a child if she becomes pregnant as the result of rape.


By the way, all of you ladies that like the ability to choose to take birth control without having to get a permission slip signed by your husband might want to watch out for someone trying to overturn Griswold v. Conneticutt.  I imagine that will be the next one up for a fight.

 

Just a note on South Dakota politics.  An old friend of ours from SD told me that Daschle was beaten in the Senate race by a guy whose primary platform had to do with prarie dog control laws, rather than anything to do with national politics or Daschle's job as Senate Democratic leader.  Just thought you might like to know what kind of politicians are behind this delightful piece of legislation.

2月22日

Domestic issues

We need national healthcare.  This privatization crap may be wrapped in a nice bow, but I can tell you now that the implimantation of this sort of program will be disasterous.  The majority of Americans favor national healthcare.  Healthcare is NOT the same as buying a car or shopping for shoes.  It is a necessity of life that should be protected from the whims of ruthless capitalism.  Look what is going on with oil.  Do you want the same price hike in healthcare because the 'market' speculates that healthcare prices should spike?  I didn't think so.  Healthcare is NOT a business and the fact that these corporate shills up on Capitol hill talk about it like it is a business should scare you all. 

Democratization

If you want an intelligent analysis of the Iraq War, listen to this.  It is long, but it is very good and puts everything in perspective. 

 

'Washington's Messianic Message'
(If it's choppy,  just download it.)
 
Thanks to Dalee Lama
 

weird

Apparently believing in this guy will get your kid taken away from you. 
 
 
 
 
You can go to the Party Cove at Lake of the Ozarks.  You can go to Burning Man.  You can go to Lake Havasu.  You can go to Mardi Gras.  But don't do all of the same things while you make fun of organized religion.  That will get a Catholic judge in NY to yell at you in court and take you kid away from you.  You can be as debaucherous as you want to, but you have to believe in the one true Christian god while you are doing it.  Otherwise you are some sort of leach on society and not good enough to raise children.  This is odd to me for a number of reasons.  The oddest thing about it to me is that it is apparently worse in our society for a consenting adult to have a fun day in the woods while (responsibly) leaving the kids at home than for a Catholic priest to molest a dozen kids.  The priest gets shuffled around through several dioceses so that no one can track his crimes.  The adult who leaves the kids out of the debauchery altogether gets her kid taken from her.  For a Catholic to make this kind of values judgement on a parent seems almost hypocritical to me.  I suppose that should be expected by now.  Whatever.  If this is going to be a theocratic Christian nation, I wish they would just come out and say so instead of playing these fucking games with people's lives.  Then at least the non-christians would know what we are up against and could prepare for the day when we have to go to court to fight for our rights to not live according to the strictest parts of the Bible.  How long before the judges start sending down a sentence of death by stoning for gay folks?
 
 
2月21日

Chistian and GOP scam artists

The extreme right Christian organizations and the GOP are teaming up again for part two of their smoke and mirror shows just in time for the 2006 election.  There are several groups that are getting organized to launch an offensive on gay adoption to distract voters from the real issues that face our country like the economy, national security, healthcare, and the war.  So, why is this a scam?  Well, it says it all right in the article:
 
"Republicans battered by questions over ethics and Iraq "might well" use the adoption issue to deflect attention and draw out conservatives in close Senate and governor races in states such as Missouri and Ohio, says University of Southern California political scientist Sherry Bebitch Jeffe.

The aim is to replicate 2004, says Julie Brueggemann of the gay rights group PROMO: Personal Rights of Missourians. She says marriage initiatives mobilized conservative voters in 2004 and helped President Bush win in closely contested states such as Ohio.

"There's a push within the right wing of the Republican Party to make this an issue," she says. "They see this as a get-out-the-vote tactic.""

 
See, the last time they did this was 2004 during the presidential election.  Like in 2004, they are planning to put their agenda on ballots in 2006 to draw the lemmings out of their holes.  The ballot initiatives are of course going to be linked to the GOP candidate.  So, close your eyes and plug your ears my children.  Don't pay attention to those pesky unimportant things like security and war, what is really important is making sure those homosexuals don't adopt children that would otherwise spend their lives in up to 12 different foster homes and feel abandoned and unloved for the rest of their lives. 
 
Oh, and this time, they are going for the jugular:
 
"Bills to restrict gay adoption are in the works in Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Indiana, Georgia, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont and West Virginia. Five of those states also are discussing ballot initiatives.

States have had "little fiddlings here and there," says Kent Markus of the National Center for Adoption Law and Policy in Ohio but "there is more activity" than he's seen in 15 years."

 
Here's the article:
 

I like this guy

 

From the Democratic Underground:

The House Rules for the US Congress allow impeachment proceedings to begin upon charges submitted by a State Legislature. Since Rhode Island is one of a handful of states in the US with a veto-proof Democratic majority and a super-majority of Rhode Islanders have a high disapproval rating of Bush-Cheney, US Senate candidate Carl Sheeler is calling on the Rhode Island legislature to initiate impeachment proceedings against George W. Bush. This is an important debate to have in our legislature. Rhode Island has always led the way in fighting for independence and freedom. Why not continue our leadership and begin the debate on impeachment?

Democratic U.S. Senate candidate and West Greenwich resident Carl Sheeler made a call out to Rhode Island Congressmen James R. Langevin (D-02) and Patrick J. Kennedy (D-01) to assist U.S. Representative John Conyers, Jr. (D-MI) to initiate impeachment hearings for President George W. Bush.

Sheeler, a marine veteran who served during the first Iraq war and an outspoken, 1970's style democrat, declared, "It's time we as ordinary citizens stop talking and start acting to bring the change we want to see in our America."

Sheeler also charged the president with failing to produce Weapons of Mass Destruction, the inability to provide adequate armor for troops, cutting the state's funds for domestic security, and national funding cuts for education and healthcare.

Sheeler's Website:

http://www.carlsheeler.com/

By the way, if you have time, sit down and read his blog.  He seems like an awesome candidate with balls.  Of course, he is a marine.

2月17日

Abu Ghraib pictures leaked

 

Update to Speechless.

 

To reiterate, there were many photos from Abu Ghraib leaked recently.  These include the following:


· 1,325 images of suspected detainee abuse
· 93 video files of suspected detainee abuse
· 660 images of adult pornography
· 546 images of suspected dead Iraqi detainees
· 29 images of soldiers in simulated sexual acts

 

But, these are different from the photos aired recently by the Austrailian media, those were released by an FOIA request.  Go here to see a sample of the 60 pictures aired on the Australian news.

If you want to see all sixty pictures, Boing Boing has the SBS broadcast

 

If you do not have bittorrent, you can got to onegoodmove and watch the video there.

 

Remember when you are looking at these photos:

These are the photos that the government has allowed us to see.  There are thousands more that the government has said are too graphic to be shown to the American people.  More graphic than these?!?!!  What the fuck are we doing?  What the hell is wrong with these people? 

The story that might have been

Avant News, a delightful site filled with satire based on reporting the potential news of the future, has a new article up describing how this Cheney shooting might have gone differently.  It's just terrifically amusing.  Here's a bit of it:
 
"A gay immigrant anti-war activist hunting together with Vice President Dick Cheney reportedly shot and seriously wounded a member of their party earlier this week in what has been termed an "alleged hunting accident". The victim, 78-year-old attorney Harry Whittington, sustained major shotgun trauma to the face, neck and chest, and is currently in critical condition at a hospital in Corpus Christi, Texas, battling potentially lethal heart complications brought on by his injuries.
 
"It's disgraceful," said Vice President Dick Cheney, who, after informing President Bush and the White House press center of the shooting, held an independent press conference on location at the Armstrong ranch within hours after the incident. "The man's a menace, and there's no doubt in my mind he and other dangerous gay anti-war immigrants like him should be incarcerated without bail or access to legal counsel until this matter has been thoroughly investigated."
Vice President Cheney said the police report will show that Mr. Thimbles fired on Mr. Whittington in "clear, sunlit conditions with only light ground cover".

"You'd have to be the world's flightiest and most inexpert marksman to make a mistake of that kind. It's the cardinal rule of hunting safety," Vice President Dick Cheney said. "Always make sure your target is clear. Narrow-gauge quail hunting is a man's game, and if you don't know what the hell you're doing, you shouldn't be out there in the first place. Either that, or this was no accident, and that's what we're going to find out.""
 

Over at FireDogLake, they are holding a poetry contest.  Go have a look and cast a vote.

Speechless

Abu Ghraib leaked report reveals full extent of abuse

· 1,325 images of suspected detainee abuse
· 93 video files of suspected detainee abuse
· 660 images of adult pornography
· 546 images of suspected dead Iraqi detainees
· 29 images of soldiers in simulated sexual acts
 
 
More about this tomorrow.  For now, I am off to bed.
2月16日

Late night blogging

I found a new blog that I like:  http://getintheirface.blogspot.com/
 
A video to see.
A message from a veteran:
 
A must read article for all military members, active duty, reserves, retirees, and vets.  And everyone who would like to know how much the Bush admin. has fucked the military.
 
"The President's 2007 Budget boasts a 7% increase in defense spending, with billions poured into military operations overseas and programs here at home. You would assume that this President who prides himself on being a "War President" would take care of the thousands of men and women who fight that war for him, under his command.  Instead, this Commander-in-Thief has sneaked in when the world is distracted by the faux outrage over funeral politics and the latest propaganda du jour, and he has robbed our heroes of what they earned the second they put on a United States uniform.  Bush's defense budget proves that there isn't a yellow ribbon big enough to cover the huge, gaping wound that will form as a result of his cuts in troop benefits."
 
Also, news about the 2007 military pay raise of a whopping 2.2%.  This year we got a 3.1% pay raise.  This is the last year that we will recieve raises under Clinton's long term plan that he passed before he left office.  It set the military pay raise through 2006.  Bush's first pay raise is a measly 2.2%.  Thank you Clinton for my pay raise this year, I am sure it will be the last one of that magnitude for quite a while.  As we all know, the rich people need the money much more than the military.  Read more about it.

This should be interesting

I wonder how white-washed these documents will be?
 
 
" “Given the great public and media attention that the government’s warrantless surveillance program has garnered and the recent hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee, the public interest is particularly well served by the timely release of the requested documents,” he said."
 
I am not getting too excited yet, they also had this to say:
 
"A spokesman said Justice Department lawyers were reviewing the judge’s ruling."
 
So, do you think the Pres. will be able to overrule the Judges decision?  I wouldn't doubt it.  I guess we will see.  And if the president somehow underminds the federal judge's ruling, can we finally admit that the executive branch is out of control?  And, if the documents are released, how do we know that "all" of the documents are released?  How do we know that they won't just pick through them and give just the documents that serve their purpose?  We would never know it if they chose to withhold some documents.  It is a secret program.  There isn't anyone that will say, "hey, that's not all of them", that is the problem in the first place.  No one knows what's on these documents, so how will we ever know if we are getting the whole story?  We won't ever know.